Amanpour Lets Green Party Nut Bash Capitalism and Bolsters Bidenomics With Krugman

Amanpour & Co.
9/28/23
1:32:09 a.m. (ET)

AMANPOUR: Is a global green agenda in trouble as leaders around the world are rolling back climate policies and pledges, they say to boost their economies? Here

in Britain, the government has just approved a huge new oil and gas field in the North Sea. Just a week after the Prime Minister Rishi Sunak slow rolled carbon neutral targets.

But to be clear, the International Energy Agency says that limiting global warming to that 1.5 degrees Celsius would require no new drilling and the

green potentially huge. A new Oxford University reports finds that Britain’s energy needs could be met entirely by wind and solar power by 2050.

We’re going to explore this in depth tonight. And my first guess is the deputy leader of Britain’s Green Party, Zack Polanski. Welcome to the program.

Polanski: Thanks for having me.

Amanpour: I was shocked actually to hear this as breaking news this morning, this new announcement. It’s controversial. And why do you think

it’s happening, and explain to us why you oppose it?

POLANSKI: I think it’s absolutely controversial. We know right now that we’re in a climate emergency and we have to listen to the scientists. The science is really clear that we need to act now. And the very least we could do is to reduce our emissions, never mind make things worse.

As to why this is happening, I really think the government is in freefall, they’re panicking. They can see they are falling in the polls and they just don’t seem to be able to get any ground. I really think Rishi Sunak is thinking, if I’m controversial or I appeal to a very minor base, that’s

something to grow from. I think —

AMANPOUR: Who is his minor base?

POLANSKI: Well, it’s climate deniers or client delayers. It’s people that, you know, talk about woke wars and culture wars. But actually, this is too serious to play politics with. And I was thinking that’s a strategy that won’t work. We see time and time again that people are worried about the climate emergency, they worried about the children and their grandchildren’s future. I think it’s really important that people like me

and other people in the green movement tell these stories that essentially say, we’re in a cost-of-living crisis but it’s not really a cost-of-living

crisis, it’s an inequality crisis.

The superrich are doing better than they ever have before. Meanwhile, people are living in mass poverty. This is an opportunity to make sure we

have good green jobs for people as we renew those industries and transition. And also, if you take insulating homes, for instance, if we

insulated every single home in Britain that needs that needs it, that both reduces bills, it lowers emissions and again, it creates those jobs I was

just talking about.

AMANPOUR: And this is often promised by various governments but never comes to it. But let’s stick with this North Sea oil and gas field. So, first and

foremost, the government says that, you know, it will bring energy security to the U.K., after what we’ve seen with, you know, Russia and potentially

other fossil fuel producing nations, holding us hostage for whatever political upheaval might be there. So, what about energy security? What

about that argument?

POLANSKI: So, this is egregious nonsense because most of the oil that will come from this oilfield will be sold on the international market. So, we’re

effectively giving it to Norway, who are giving a subsidy to this massive oil fossil giant and then selling it back to the U.K. But actually, if we really want energy security and want to protect our planet, investing in renewables is the exact way to do this.

Now, in 2015 under David Cameron’s government, he famously said, let’s cut the green crap. We’ve now got lots of evidence that shows if we’d invested right then, we’d be saving everyone masses on their energy bills right now. So, these are real missed opportunities. The best time to invest in renewables would have been about 10, 20 years ago. The second-best time is right now.

AMANPOUR: Yes. I mean, what do you make of that? That’s a pretty extraordinary Oxford University report to come out practically as this Rosebank field is announced. And it says by 2050, solar and wind could power all of them — all of U.K.’s needs.

POLANSKI: I think it’s really telling and it points again to what this government have missed, which is that long-term strategy, we’re so short-termist all the time. But actually, if they took that step back, looked at this report and lots of other evidence, you could see how investing in renewables is exactly the way forward.

And just last week, we lost out on offshore wind because we failed to bid high enough at an auction. Again, we can’t keep making mistakes like this.

And this is vital why we need more Green M.P.s in Parliament, because every Green M.P. is someone making this case, and we know the difference a Green

makes in the room, that it’s a powerful voice that will say to probably a future Labour prime minister, that climate is important And I think it’s

important to note that Labour today have said they won’t revoke these licenses. They are complicit in what is essentially a climate crime.

AMANPOUR: They won’t do any new ones, but they say they won’t revoke existing permissions.

POLANSKI: And I feel like that’s just spin. When we’ve just had the biggest oil and gas license committed to say, we won’t do any new ones, feels very convenient. And it’s worth pointing out that the emissions from this one alone are equal to 28 of the lowest income countries. That’s about, you know, millions and millions of people. Again, it’s just outrageous that Labour won’t stand up.

AMANPOUR: So, the thing is though, you said it’s important to have more Green politicians. If I’m not mistaken, I think you only have one M.P., right, your former leader, Caroline Lucas.

POLANSKI: That’s correct.

AMANPOUR: Right. So, she basically has called it the greatest — this new field, the greatest act of environmental vandalism in my lifetime. But I

just want to ask you about the facts here. She was told by the energy firm, Ithaca Energy, that the oil would not be mostly exported. And then, the

briefing from the main investor, as you said, says the oil will be sold on the open market and the most likely destination is Europe. Who’s telling the truth?

POLANSKI: Well, I think let’s explore both options very quickly. This is about scope 3 emissions, which are essentially when you burn this oil. Now,

if those emissions are being outsourced to another country, that would make it net zero, which is what the government are arguing. They’re saying, it

doesn’t cause any problems because it’s essentially being sold on the international market.

But then, that story doesn’t add up. If they’re being burnt right here in – – you know, as we know, in the UK, then they are contributing to our emissions. Either way, we’re still burning oil, and that’s awful. But the

government’s story is just incoherent and it doesn’t add up either way.

AMANPOUR: And what does it mean for prices for the British consumer?

POLANSKI: Well, we’ve seen prices go further and further up. And I think, you know, Liz Truss’s government was not an accident. That was not some

kind of aberration. That’s the natural extension of what happens if you allow the free market, if you allow the planet to burn, and you just keep allowing capitalism to be the only way forward here.

I think ultimately, what we need to do is grab that agenda. So, again, we’re saying, we’re investing in green jobs for the future, we’re

protecting the most vulnerable, and actually, we should be taxing the wealthiest for most as well. 91P in every pound from this oil is going back

to the fossil fuels. That’s subsidizing fossil fuel companies —

AMANPOUR:…