Talk:Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny: Difference between revisions
::”So here is what we are faced with:” It’s either your ‘sources-clearly-spelling-out-your-case’(i.e. which dont exist at this time) VS. the articles calling it a success/failure(i.e.which do exist). Leaving out the ‘already-verified-citations-as-is’ would require a proper prevailing consensus vetted on the talk page– with an RFC about why we should ignore them. But it can’t just be, as you have suggested: ‘sources/citations-of-the-information’ VS. your personal interpretation of said information… which is why we have the policy against [[WP:OR]] as it too often or not would lead to a form of [[WP:CENSOR]] if you had your way based upon your reasoning here. Maybe the press IS jumping the gun on this, but we have to trust the readers enough to figure that out and hold them accountable. You seem to have done a decent job in making up your own mind. That is an example of wikipedia working IMHO.
::”So here is what we are faced with:” It’s either your ‘sources-clearly-spelling-out-your-case’(i.e. which dont exist at this time) VS. the articles calling it a success/failure(i.e.which do exist). Leaving out the ‘already-verified-citations-as-is’ would require a proper prevailing consensus vetted on the talk page– with an RFC about why we should ignore them. But it can’t just be, as you have suggested: ‘sources/citations-of-the-information’ VS. your personal interpretation of said information… which is why we have the policy against [[WP:OR]] as it too often or not would lead to a form of [[WP:CENSOR]] if you had your way based upon your reasoning here. Maybe the press IS jumping the gun on this, but we have to trust the readers enough to figure that out and hold them accountable. You seem to have done a decent job in making up your own mind. That is an example of wikipedia working IMHO.
::Hope that explains it better, and thank you for the spirited debate. Take care [[Special:Contributions/2601:282:8100:32A0:4986:E412:9BBF:F7C2|2601:282:8100:32A0:4986:E412:9BBF:F7C2]] ([[User talk:2601:282:8100:32A0:4986:E412:9BBF:F7C2|talk]]) 22:03, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
::Hope that explains it better, and thank you for the spirited debate. Take care [[Special:Contributions/2601:282:8100:32A0:4986:E412:9BBF:F7C2|2601:282:8100:32A0:4986:E412:9BBF:F7C2]] ([[User talk:2601:282:8100:32A0:4986:E412:9BBF:F7C2|talk]]) 22:03, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
:::This is the main issue here. When people says that “there are enough sources by this point calling this a “box office bomb” or “flop””, sadly with the 4 sources (The Guardian, Screen Rant, Coming Soon, Deadline), only one clearly says that. The other does not mention specifically that the movie is a box-office bomb. We cannot interpretate what they might have said without some specific citations.
:::On Wikipedia, we need valid sources to claim something. The mentionned sources does not seems to reflect the majority and the consensus in the press does NOT says it’s a box-office bomb at this moment. If many reliable journalists and sources don’t seem to think it’s “too soon” to call this movie a bomb, we need proper sources to confirm that. At this moment, it’s not the case with the 4 sources. By exemple, the title from the source from Coming Soon is “Why ‘Kathleen Kennedy Fired’ Is Trending After Indiana Jones 5”. If you look in the article, there is nothing about a box-office bomb. And for the one on The Guardian, except with the Clickbait Title, nowhere in the article mentions that Dial of Destiny is a box-office bomb.
:::I’m sure there has been endless reverting of this particular section by various editors, for various reasons. Some may want to erase it because they don’t want to think that this movie may be a flop, other absolutely wants to keep it for personal reasons, etc.
:::Personnaly, I’m not against the fact that this article mentions that this movie is underperforming at the box-office, which is something that is currently happening right now and it’s a pretty concensus among journalists and specialists. However, saying that it’s a box-office bomb while the movie is still in theaters does not make sense (in my perspective), because it may be possible that the movie will get at least 600 million $ at the box-office in some months (even if there is a little hope). In that case, I also prefer that the phrase, “box-office bomb”, be not used this early in the film’s run while it is still earning revenue. Anyway, what should we do at this moment?
:::[[User:JymSeikenFlame|JymSeikenFlame]] ([[User talk:JymSeikenFlame|talk]]) 02:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
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I propose to merge Untitled fifth…
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